Power of the Parent 12: S6 Ep12: Harnessing Your Productivity

A really common question I get from leaders and line managers in organisations is about how we can create environments where everybody is valued, regardless of their family set up. We’re still very much in a world where long hours, burnout and busyness is a badge of honour. We also know that narrow definitions of success are holding many parents and caregivers back when we don’t quite fit those moulds.

Sophie is the antithesis of all of that, so I was absolutely buzzing when we sat down to have a chat about the 3 things you need to know about harnessing your productivity. And they are:

Sophie has been on the podcast before for a longer conversation about how we treat our time, what’s happened to her ego since becoming a parent, the value in re-assessing what’s important to us and our own definition of ambition. Sophie shared some of the misconceptions she’s faced since starting her business (and how she faces into them) as well as finding joy as a parent and she kindly fitted in 3 practical things line managers and organisations can be doing to encourage workplaces to positively challenge their relationship with joy. You can listen here.

Please do rate, review and subscribe if you find this podcast useful – it helps people find it and ultimately get the calls to action out in the world. It makes Charlotte feel great too 😆

For further info on Power of the Parent you can head to our website http://www.power-of-the-parent.com or connect to the founder, Charlotte Speak on LinkedIn.

Episode Transcript

Charlotte Speak  00:00

Hello and welcome to Power of the Parent, the podcast. This series is a new format and we are going to be focusing on a different topic each week, bringing you three things you need to know about whatever that may be, mainly from an employer perspective. But of course, there’s plenty of reframing that parents could do to benefit from the content as well.

We will be covering everything from parental leave transitions, managing boundaries, what to do when your talent pipeline looks a bit dodgy, tips on gathering feedback, and things like establishing parental support networks.  So let’s dive in. 

Hello and welcome back to the next episode of Power of the Parent: Three Things You Need to Know About, the podcast. And it is the first one of 2025 and I have a pal with me on a very, very exciting day for her, Sophie cliff is joining me, and it’s the publication day for her second book. Yes, her second book. I’ve got a mate that has written two books, and I am so excited. Sophie has been on the podcast before, which I will link to the previous episode so you can go and hear all about what she was talking about there. 

But today’s focus is going to be three things that you need to know about in a kind of an employer setup. But we’re going to have a focus on productivity. And the three things that Sophie is going to be talking about are that productivity isn’t about the volume of stuff you can get done. The second thing is we all have our unique productivity formulas, and finally, taking the joyful route can boost our productivity. Now Sophie, by trade, is an incredible coach and the source of all things joy, and she talks about it in the most accessible, practical, no toxic positivity kind of way at all. So I’m so excited that we’re going to get to dive into these three incredible areas. So thank you for joining me, Sophie, and I will hand over to you to dive in.

Sophie Cliff  01:59

Thank you for having me, and thank you for that very kind introduction. It’s very rare that you get to hear how other people describe your work. It always feels really nice. So thank you. And I’m really excited to talk about these three things that can help with productivity, or bust some of those myths around productivity. When I was researching the book, I kept having these light bulb moments around, ah, that’s what I had always believed, and it’s changed, or the research doesn’t back that up. And I wanted to share some of them today. 

So the first one is around how productivity isn’t about the volume of stuff we can get done, something that was really clear in the research and in not just the research about productivity, but the research around burnout, around toxic productivity, is that as a society, we’ve started to equate productivity to busyness. And there was a really interesting study done, I think it was in 2018 that showed busyness has become the new status symbol. So just as in previous decades, it might have been our job title, or the car we drove, or the type of salary we had, you know, the salary band we were on nowadays, busyness is a status symbol in a similar way, and that’s because we live in a world where our output is valued above all things. 

So if someone asks us how we’re doing and we say, Oh yeah, great, really busy. What we’re essentially trying to communicate is that I’m in demand. I’m valuable. I’m bringing something of note and of worth to my organisation or to my clients or to whatever that might look like. And what was really clear is that that is one of the main sources of not just burnout, but of huge inefficiencies, because productivity isn’t about the volume of stuff we’re getting done. It’s the amount of stuff that we’re doing that adds impact. It’s the stuff that helps us to get us closer to our goals. I do a lot of work with organisations, and some organisations are really great at this. They’re really clear at defining what has impact. You know, where people’s scope to to add value to their team or to their organisation and others do have this culture, and it’s just, you know, born out of decades of doing it this way, where presenteeism and busyness and how long is your to do list kind of signals, you know, how well of a job you’re doing, but that’s the first tip, really, is to think about, how can we really clearly define what adds value and what doesn’t? 

I know a lot of clients I talk to say they’re in meetings all day where the meeting doesn’t really move things forward or add much value, or there might be reporting they’re doing that actually isn’t ever looked at or isn’t ever used, or a whole host of different things. But if we can help our teams really get clear on where they can add the most value. That’s a real turning point for productivity, and it’s also a real turning point for engagement, because if your teams can feel like they’re adding value, they are moving forwards. They’re connected to the wider company purpose, engagement is going to be stronger, and they’re going to experience more joy at work. Which has a whole host of benefits in its own right. 

So that would be the first tip, and I think a particularly pertinent one for January, when there is all of this noise about how much can you do this year, and how many steps forward can you take, and how can we add a perfect routine and do all of these extra things towards these extra goals. Instead, take that breath and just think, you know, for personally, professionally, for your teams, what is the stuff that adds value? What is the definition of success, and how can we get there in the most effective way, rather than the busiest or the most extreme way? I

Charlotte Speak  05:37

I really love that, and I just wanted to pick up on the busyness as a status symbol or status that you want to get to. I remember working with somebody probably about 10 years ago now, and if you said to her, Oh, how are you doing? She goes Busy, busy, busy. That is how she responded to pretty much every question. And it’s amazing how that kind of effervescent is in quite a nasty way actually, because it seeps out. There is a level of toxicity there. I’ve often used the phrase toxic positivity. I’ve never used the phrase toxic productivity. And I think that’s brilliant and at the same time, if you know what I mean, that’s a really great way of summing some of this up. And I know that people will be listening who will be here with that kind of parent angle about how they’re supporting parents in the workplace, but everything that you’re describing there, it’s for everybody, isn’t it? This is something that will get to us all. 

I suppose the thing for parents in particular is that that busyness that we might be chasing is also this less than desirable cocktail that’s mixed with all the things that you’ve got going. Like, just before we hit record, we were talking about how much between the two levels we’ve got on with our kids, and just how much that can take its toll. So then you can suddenly start to erode people’s self worth because your family set up, or your life set up. And you know, it doesn’t have to be having kids, but because we’ve all got different life setups, our ability to get to that busyness status is just so different as well. So you then start to feel, well, if that’s the definition of success, am I further behind? Because I can’t do what they’re doing. And so I think it’s something to really, really think about that you put it really, practically like that. You know, think about, even if you look at somebody’s diary, what impact are all these things adding? Even starting there, it’s incredibly powerful.

Sophie Cliff  07:28

Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, it seeps into everything. So I definitely recognise, as a parent, that sometimes it can feel like the way to be a better parent is to do more, to schedule more play dates, to get the craft stuff out to book all these days out. And I think that spills over into work, and it just creates this impossible formula where everything can’t be fitted in, and so we always feel like we’re failing. And I think the more we can have those both personal and professional definitions of what adds value, the more we can sort of prioritize and choose what is right for us versus what is right for everybody else, and that leads quite nicely onto the second tip, which is that we all have our unique productivity formulas. 

So the inspiration for this book really came from my pregnancy with my daughter. I am self-employed. I had this overwhelming realization that, Oh, crap, I’ve got to fit in an extra person and caring for a whole brand new human into an already very busy life. And so I went online, I ordered loads of time management and productivity books, and I very quickly realized that they weren’t really written for people like me. So there were some great tips in there, but they were often written by people who were very senior and had a team to delegate to, or like, I’ll be honest, 99% of them were written by men. 

So in, you know, the top 50 on Amazon, when I was pitching this book, there was only one book written by a woman, and it was about batch cooking, which really sort of put a fire up my backside to get a proposal together. But one of the things that I’ve uncovered in writing this book is that there is no one size fits all productivity method. And I think that’s why I can see now, why I found those books so jarring was because, you know, I was reading about how I could be more productive if I started the day at 5am and I was thinking, how’s that practical when you’ve been up three times in the night with a baby or or if you’re just not someone who naturally wakes up at that time, or I was reading about how time blocking was really effective, but that’s difficult if you’ve got shorter bursts of time to work in. Or if you get called from nursery to say, sorry you’ve got to come and pick your little one up, that time block is suddenly thrown out of the window. 

And I was really curious just about how we could try and put some context around productivity and personalize it a little bit. And there was loads of brilliant research that came out so on the idea of the early bird thing I’d always read in every article about. Productivity, or every podcast that you know, if you start your day earlier, you’ll get more done. But actually, I found that there’s this thing called Sleep chronotype. So we are all genetically wired to be more productive at different times of the day, and it’s thought that that was because way back when we needed to work together as packs. So while people were sleeping, there always needed to be someone who was awake and was naturally more energetic at that time. So we do have people who are early birds, but there are also people who get their productivity high point at 3pm, others who get it at 8pm and knowing that and being able to recognise that, and being able to think about that as a team is quite powerful. 

Similarly, you know, if you are someone who experiences a menstrual cycle, you’re likely to have weeks where you feel like you could run the world and get everything done, and other weeks where you might feel a little bit more introspective and big pitching work, or whatever might feel a little bit more difficult. Or you might, if you don’t have a menstrual cycle, feel exactly the same every day, and so consistency might be something that you naturally want to strive towards, but the thing that I sort of took away from researching this is that there’s been a bit of a context collapse when it comes to productivity. 

So there are these things that we see on LinkedIn or in books or in podcasts which sort of state the rules of productivity or share the best ways to be productive, but it will be different for everyone, and it will be really different within a team. And to be able to get the best from that team, we almost need to rebuild some of that context. So if you’ve got someone in your team whose baby isn’t sleeping through the night, and they’re looking really knackered, it might be that morning meetings aren’t ideal, because they’re still coming around, and they’re still sort of getting into the flow, whereas you might be able to get really great work from them in the afternoon, or it might be that there are some members of your team who like sometimes the rhythms of our week can influence our productivity. So they might get loads done on their working from home days, but being in the office might feel more around networking rather than specific output. 

So being able to put some of that context around it, and being able to understand ourselves and our team members better, I think, can really help to drive productivity as a whole, and to help get the best out of a team, rather than thinking this is how I work. So this is how I expect everybody else to work.

Charlotte Speak  12:21

I have zero notes on everything you just said that was incredible. All I need to say is that I am definitely getting a t-shirt printed that says there’s been a context collapse, and it will have Sophie Cliff written underneath it, because if ever there was a phrase in the mic drop moment that was it.

Sophie Cliff  12:37

Yeah, yeah. This isn’t the only area where there has been but it really does feel like the voices who are shouting loudest about productivity have a very fixed way of doing it, and it’s just that reminder that that might not be the best way for everyone in your team, particularly if they’ve had a big shift in their life, or their kids are going through some sort of shift, it will always be changing and evolving, and I think that’s important to to recognise as well. And then the final tip, it relates to what we’ve spoken about when I’ve been on your podcast before, which is that taking the joyful route can boost our productivity. 

Something that came out time and time again when I was researching this book and delving into all of the academic side and the psychology side, is that when we are feeling good, we naturally are more productive. And I think this is important, because sometimes we actually undervalue the stuff that comes naturally and easily to us. So if something is a strength and we could do it really quickly, we kind of think it’s not worth as much, because what we’ve been told is hard work is good work, or nothing worth having comes easy, and we’ve been reminded over and over again that it’s supposed to be hard and it’s supposed to be difficult, and I think that feeds into that sense of busyness and presenteeism is that, you know, like we have to really graft for something to add value, but it’s just not true. You know, when something feels easy and natural to you, you can get more done in an hour than you can if something feels really tricky and you’re having to use a lot of willpower and determination, and so when you’re looking at if there’s that need to drive productivity in a team, rather than focusing on weaknesses, rather than focusing on what can be changed, start with that positive, joyful stuff. 

What’s the meaning? What’s the purpose? Where can your teams connect with the impact that you’re having? What are their strengths? When are they in flow? So when do they feel really absorbed in their work? What does a good work life blend look like to them? 

The more joyful they can feel naturally, the greater the productivity. And actually, some of the statistics, I can’t recall them off the top of my head, but they were, you know, they were significant in terms of cost savings for organisations, or productivity increases in terms of percentages. 

And again, it’s just sometimes not where we start, particularly, you know, in the coming back to the idea of context, in the context we’re in at the moment, it’s a challenging market for pretty much every organisation.And, you know, it’s been constantly challenging for the last decade, really, between pandemic and recessions and all of those sorts of things. So when that is our context, it’s very easy to start from a place of negativity and to think about, what do we need to fix, and how do we catch up? Or how do we, you know, motivate our team to do better, and actually starting with what is already really good, giving your team a sense of meaning and connection to their work, adding that joy and that fun in can drive productivity so much more effectively.

Charlotte Speak  15:33

I think that is an incredible and really, really powerful reminder. And as you know, my relationship with strengths is steadfast, and I think everything that you’ve just shared there is a really important reminder that it really isn’t a race to the bottom, and it doesn’t have to be. You don’t have to go from a place of deficit all the time. I think sometimes people do really struggle with not going so far the other way and trying to sugar coat lots of things as well. There’s a lot to be said for neutrality. I think, with this topic, isn’t that you don’t have to operate in one of those extremes, but it’s almost like people are still seeking permission to get there. And I think everything that you’ve just shared, if anybody feels like they need that permission slip, Sophie’s just given it to you. 

So thank you so much for sharing that, and I have no doubt that people will be listening to this and wanting to go and get your book without a shadow of a doubt. So we’ll leave the link to Sophie’s second book in the notes. But it would be remiss of me to not put a link to the first one in there as well. And then I know that you do lots of work with organisations, and it’s really, really varied, like when I see you talking about the different workshops that you’ve been doing for people, you must get asked all for all sorts of manner of things. If people do want to come and talk to you about how you can support their organisation, where is the best place for them to come and find you?

Sophie Cliff  16:58

Yeah, you can head to joy futures.co.uk, which has got a little bit more detail there around our sort of typical workshop menu. But like you just said, the positive psychology can be applied to all sorts of different facets of the workplace. So whether it’s engagement, whether it’s well-being, we do a lot of reflective practice with teams to help them sort of reach some of these conclusions on their own terms, or whether it’s productivity there is Yeah, positive psychology can be applied in lots and lots of different formats. And like you said, it’s not about pretending that the bad stuff isn’t there. It’s about giving as much attention to the good stuff as we do to the bad, and trying to find that balance like you’ve just mentioned. Amazing

Charlotte Speak  17:41

Thank you so much. All of those links will be in the show notes. So please do get in touch with Sophie if you’ve got any questions, or you think, yeah, we need a bit of a joyful conversation in our organisation, and definitely challenging some of the productivity narratives. So thank you so much for joining me, Sophie, and have an amazing publication day.

Sophie Cliff  18:02

Thank you so much.

Charlotte Speak  18:05

Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of power, the parent, the podcast. If you have got a few spare minutes, who am I kidding? Of course, you haven’t got a few spare minutes. But if you would like to choose to spend a few of your minutes giving me any sort of review or rating, I would massively appreciate it. It does help other people find it, and it also lets me know that I’m hitting the spot with listeners. For more free resources, you can head to the show notes, where you’ll find a link to the power of the parent website, or do head on over to LinkedIn and give me a follow search Charlotte speak, and my grilling face should pop up until next time take care. Bye.