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Power of the Parent 1: 1: Clare Clifford – Sunshine Digital

Power of the Parent 1: 1: Clare Clifford – Sunshine Digital

Trigger warning – child loss.In this week’s episode I chat with Clare – digital content expert, queen of engagement, growth specialist and founder of Sunshine Digital.

We talked about the impact of being a parent in the workplace when you’re bringing in more revenue but working fewer hours than your peers, the experiences she gathered through a couple of different jobs and how she realised content and marketing was her work purpose.

Clare also talks about the role her daughter, Charlotte, has played in Sunshine Digital. Charlotte passed away suddenly in 2017 when she was seven and a half months old, and Clare shares some of the things they’ve navigated as a family and ultimately the legacy Charlotte has left – she was their sunshine and that features front and centre in what Clare does. In Clare’s own words, ‘Charlotte made me fearless’.

Amongst lots of other things we also touched on the realities of running your own business, feelings of failure, the brilliant highs, the importance of defining your version of success and some of our gripes with social media.

If you want to find out more about Clare and what she does you can find her on instagram @claresunshinedigital.

Episode Transcript

Charlotte Speak 0:00
Hi everyone, I wanted to let you know that in this episode with Claire from sunshine digital media, we discuss child loss. If that’s something you don’t feel up to listening to right now please feel free to come back next week or listen to another episode in the series.

Hello, and welcome to Power of the Parent, the podcast. I’m your host Charlotte Speak, I’m a level seven CMI accredited coach, a strength scope Master Practitioner, Mental Health First Aider and talent consultant and I’m also the face behind Power of the Parent. In this podcast, I’ll be speaking to parents in the workplace. Some of them are in traditionally employed roles, others are running their own businesses and we’re having conversations about life in general, insights about being a parent and having a career and exploring the strengths that parenting has awoken for people. We will talk about things like the value that they’re bringing to the workplace, as well as my guests very generously sharing their personal stories and anecdotes about everything life can throw at us.

Hello, and welcome to this next episode of Power of the Parent, the podcast with me your host, Charlotte Speak. Today I am joined by the incredible Clare from Sunshine Digital. Clare is a digital content expert. She describes herself as an engagement and growth specialist. And her promise of making your business shine online has me hooked immediately. I’m a big fan of the sunflower and when I saw that that was part of Clare’s branding, I was immediately hitting that follow button. Clare is also a parent and would also describe herself as an entrepreneur. And I can’t wait to explore your journey, the story behind Sunshine Digital and get to know you a little bit better today, Clare, so thank you for joining.

Clare Clifford 1:55
Hi Charlotte, thank you for having me.

Charlotte Speak 1:56
So I know that we can obviously all go and find your Insta grid and we can go and learn a bit more about what you do. But do you want to tell us a little bit about your story and what’s kind of got you to today?

Clare Clifford 2:09
Well, I’ll start, yeah, roughly at the beginning, I had what I call my my proper job, where I think my job title was a business manager. But that was around creating content, events, running networks where lots of people were members, selling memberships, that sort of thing for a large social housing consultancy, so lots of marketing, but having to do the full spectrum of it really. I loved my job, found it really exciting. Really varied, I loved the trips to London and all over the rest of the country. And then I found myself pregnant with my oldest daughter. Little bit of a surprise, but a happy one and I think I was 29 when I had her. And it completely changed my career. I felt that I wasn’t really taken seriously anymore. I had agreed that I would do a nine day fortnight and then about two weeks before I first returned to work, I was told that that wasn’t going to be possible anymore. And I have to either go full time or part time. So I ended up working Monday to Thursday and having Friday’s off. And with an eight month old baby, my baby spent most of Friday sleeping and I spent most of Friday catching up on my emails. And this went on for a little while and I knew it wasn’t sustainable, but I kind of went with it. And I think one of the moments for me was I sat in the rest of, I was part of the kind of senior management team, and I was sat in a meeting talking about who was bringing in what revenue within the business. And I was sitting there thinking I earn at least 20% less than everybody around this table. But I’m bringing 30% more in and I’m working less hours, this just isn’t and I’m killing myself doing this, this just isn’t right. So about two months later, I was offered voluntary redundancy and everyone was invited to apply. I wasn’t sure that that’s what I wanted to do, but I thought I’ll apply for it and see what the package is. And it was a lot better than I’d hoped so off I went. I kind of fell out of love with marketing and content for a little while. And I retrained, I wanted to go into beauty, retrained as a nail technician. And that never really got to take off the ground because everybody that I’ve ever worked with was getting in touch with me to do things for them. Do jobs, plan events, write content, look after their social media. And it kind of grew from there really and that was just Claire Clifford Services. So I was freelance for probably about four or five years, where I would be behind the scenes of a business actually doing someone’s social or content or marketing follow up, almost like part of the team. And I liked that but I wanted to set up on my own. And I actually saw somebody that I’d coached from being a graduate and showing her how to do it, set up her own digital marketing agency. I was like, why haven’t I done that? I’ve got so much more, I’ve got a decade on her experience, why aren’t I doing this? I was just really scared, really scared to do it, it was so much easier to just be freelance and hide behind my clients. And I also felt that as a working parent, that I was never ever going to be able to get the balance right while I was employed. I think maybe things are a little bit, I think the COVID situation has been a positive in the sense that employers are probably going to be a little bit more flexible now I hope. But I feel that it all comes down to the work. It’s a working mother, not working parents, your child’s ill, it’s mum, if school closes for three months, it’s mum that’s got to deal with everything. And it’s just it’s not fair and it’s hard. So I felt this freelance business with a child and I knew that I wanted more children would work well and I could be a bit more in charge of my own time. And I’m not saying I’ve ever completely got that balance right, but it’s a bit better. If a client is being very demanding and unreasonable, then we can part ways because I’ve got other clients who are my ideal clients and if I want to take an hour off to go to see my child’s school play, that’s why I’m self employed. That’s the reason I do it. So anyway, I then went on to have another little girl in 2016, Charlotte and I didn’t plan to take any time off really just six weeks. And my main client at the time said, look in the nicest possible way, we don’t want you back, we’ve decided we’re going to take it in house and see how that goes. And that was fine so I got kind of a surprise maternity leave. I didn’t have any money saved up, which was a bit rubbish. But I managed to get a few months off with my baby, which I wasn’t expecting. And Charlotte was the most adorable, relaxed baby in the world. She was my sunshine as the business says. And then in 2017, when she was seven and a half months old, she died unexpectedly. And it was put down to sudden infant death syndrome. We’ll never really know why, she was in bed with me, which I feel huge guilt about. But she was a bit unwell and unsettled and I thought I’d done the right thing by her. So yes, she died. And I found myself with no clients. No baby, the meagre bit of maternity pay that I was getting was going to run out two or three weeks later. And I was in a very bad place, in turmoil, and amongst all this, and then discovered that I was pregnant with my son, who’s now three. And I was just, got no work, no money, no baby, I’ve got another baby on the way. I’ve got a daughter who’s five, who’s lost a sister, who was in pieces, and I’m trying to support her and keep everything together really, what on earth? What on earth do I do? So I decided to set up my business, I decided that nothing could ever be as scary and as hurtful and as upsetting as losing your child. So if I set up my business, and it didn’t work, then, you know, so be it. So, and I also knew that, because of the fast pace of digital, I knew that if I’d had kind of two years out, it would be very difficult to get back in, especially as somebody who is self employed. And also, as much as it shouldn’t matter when you go for an interview for a job. There’s a six month contract and you’re freelance and you’re obviously pregnant. It does. I mean, you can’t finish that contract, so yeah, I decided to set up the business and get some work in before it became abundantly obvious that I was expecting my son and the first client I won within the first month was First Group PLC, and it all kind of snowballed from there really. There’s obviously been ups and downs, I had a 48 hour maternity leave, I had to text a client while I was in labour to say I’m not going to be able to make our meeting tomorrow. So yeah, it’s hard. It’s very hard, but it’s mostly on my terms and it’s difficult in the sense of, it constantly feels like there’s something missing. And that’s really difficult. Charlotte should be starting school, she should be starting reception this time. And that’s difficult because I’m buying the uniform for my other two children, my son’s starting preschool and not her. And I’m seeing her little friends start school as well. And my daughter’s friends who have got sisters and brothers the same age, starting school, and I can see how much that hurts her as well. As much as she loves her brother, my eldest, Leila has gone from having this wonderful little sister to this stinky, annoying little brother. And it’s, I think she will always wonder what if I’d have had that sister instead. And that’s the guilt you feel for that as well as trying to be a parent as well as trying to run the business. It’s sometimes just all consuming.

Charlotte Speak 10:58
You’ve got so many different, I guess, powers and reasons behind your business. [Yeah.] And, and then also, everything that that therefore means in terms of navigating that. So, not forgetting you as a person as well, obviously, you are supporting your daughter, and she’s noticing those things and feeling those things alongside you, but you’re at the heart of that too. And you’re kind of getting up every day and functioning and also delivering for clients as well as being a parent and I imagine, you know, kind of being a parent for your son as well to be a different dynamic that comes in, I’m not going to pretend that I even understand how that’s going to feel but I’ve got an assumption there I guess, about how that feels, and what that dynamic looks like for you.

Clare Clifford 11:57
Every milestone that he reaches that she didn’t, it’s just completely, utterly bittersweet, I’m so pleased, but then it’s just something else that she hasn’t got. And I think I’ve always been quite, strong isn’t the right word, I’ve always been quite determined, and I don’t let knocks floor me. But as much as this did, I refuse to be defined by the death of my daughter, I refused. I’m not just going to be that person who walks around like a living ghost. Because I owe that to my other children. And also I feel that I owe that to Charlotte because she was such a wonderful, and the love that I still have for even though I can’t physically parent her. She’s such a wonderful, she doesn’t deserve her legacy to be that she broke me and her loss broke me and our family. So that’s why I started Sunshine because I wanted to do something positive to make her proud of her mummy and look after her family.

Charlotte Speak 13:00
Yeah, I’m sure that she is without a doubt. And she’s obviously front and centre. [Yeah.] With the name of the agency as well. [Yeah.] Was that kind of like just natural or did you tussle with that, or what was it?

Clare Clifford 13:19
Not really well, it wasn’t hard to get something better than Claire Clifford services. But yeah, no, it was instant. And I’ve worked with a couple of kind of branding people and I’ve just been like the name and the sunflower is not going. [Yep.] No matter what you say, someone said they thought it was a bit feminine. And I was like I don’t care, it means, I’ve got it tattooed on my wrist. Yeah, the sunflower, it’s not going anywhere. And it means something to me. So yeah, it was quite easy. I’m not saying starting a business is easy. But I think it gave me something to do to devote my attention and time and focus on and I think the hardest part was definitely deciding that I was gonna set it up. And the rest of it followed because I didn’t really have a clue. Being freelance you are working for yourself, but it’s very different to running a business and having a front to your business. So yeah, that’s the rest of it just kind of happened and people are so scared to work for themselves, because they’re worried about the roller coaster of income. And I would say after four years now nearly mine’s pretty consistent now. I know that I have a rubbish December and I know that I have a rubbish August. That’s because, number one, I take some time off and the clients take some time off and you just plan for that. And if you get scared about all the things like payroll and IT and things, there are people that can help you with that. So just you know, have a whirl, and can always get a proper job. You can always go back but you’ll never know.

Charlotte Speak 15:08
Yeah. And I think sometimes this is a conversation I’ve had with people a lot in the last three years that I’ve set up. Sometimes I think, I certainly did try to crave the consistency that employed life had brought for me was that some of that was financial consistency. And some of that was probably, I kind of kidded myself around working hours that, you know, it’d be more consistent than I actually thought. And they haven’t, I’ve worked different hours all the time. And I think one of the things that I really struggle with, and I say this quite openly, is that I have a real issue with some of the conversations that happen on social media, about let’s get you to consistent 5k months, 10k months, whatever thing. Because I think until you are, and, I suppose I’m probably projecting a little bit of my experience, but the more I say this to people who are either freelance or self employed, or run their own business, the more people say, oh, yeah, that’s actually how I found it until you get to sort of three or four years in, that consistency isn’t necessarily there. And even then you do have some months that are higher, some months that are lower, and you kind of learn to adapt to some of that flow a little bit. [Yeah.] But I think I felt like a failure in my first year, because I hadn’t achieved any financial consistency. I hadn’t hit any of the goals that I’d set myself. And even as a bloody coach, I’m sat there not coaching myself, and not looking at my goals and thinking, is that a bit too high of an expectation of myself that I can work that number of hours and find that number of clients and achieve that financial success. And I kind of had it all wrapped up in one that if I didn’t get all of those, it equaled failure. And I think that’s one of the things that it really jars with me, in that digital space, that people are projecting a lot of the time their definition of success. And then if you as the consumer don’t achieve that, well, what do you need? Well, invest in more coaching, throw more money at it, get somebody else to do your business plan.

Clare Clifford 17:26
Yeah, it makes me feel a little bit awkward, as well, when people are saying I’ve just had 10k months. And somebody did it, that I follow on social media. And I’m just like, I don’t like that I’m unfollowing that, because it doesn’t make me feel particularly good, especially in these times. But I also knew that they probably did have a 10 grand month because they just launched a six month course that everyone paid for upfront but actually having 10 grand last half of the year. And getting it all up front. It’s difficult. But like you say you become used to the ebbs and flows and actually could I be having a 10 grand month every month, you know what, probably, but I can’t be bothered. That’s probably really unambitious of me.

Charlotte Speak 18:14
I think ambition looks different to different people, doesn’t it? That’s something that I had to unpick very heavily from corporate life. I don’t know if that was something that you’ve found as well?

Clare Clifford 18:28
Yeah, absolutely. I mean I don’t want to work every single day. Some weeks, I do work every single day but that’s probably because I do realise I probably need to address my wonky boundaries a little bit and be a little bit more organised. But coming next year, well come September, sorry, I’m hoping that’ll happen. But yeah, there’s nowhere for me to go now, if that makes sense. Whereas in my kind of ‘real job,’ ‘proper job,’ corporate life, there was always the next rung of the ladder or there was always that pay rise to reach to, but if I made like five grand more one year than the next, I wouldn’t, in this job, I wouldn’t particularly think yay, me. But if I’d have got a five grand pay rise, I would have been yay me. I think you’ve got to celebrate the little wins. And I think, for me, I lost 95% of my client base overnight when COVID happened, literally overnight. I had no clients, I had one client left. And even they were like, well just you know, really scale back on what you’ve done. But actually, I had the kids at home, and my partner works in food production so he was working throughout, so it was all me. I’m trying to save a business, trying to look after the kids, I’m trying not to panic because I’m very aware of people dying and death, so I’m like, you will stay here and you’ll have cautionary Calpol. I managed to get out of that but it was just, then I dug in and built it back up again. I did a lot of kind of supporting people for free for a few months, because I did genuinely want to help people. But I think my business is now in a better place, I’m doing a lot more, I don’t like saying I’m a coach, but people like to say that I coach them on their social media. I’m not a qualified coach but I do a lot of training, and show people how to do their own. And that’s what I like doing best, working with small businesses and teaching them how to do their own socials, so I’m doing much more of that, whereas I used to do much more retainer work, so I’ve got a much better balance now of that. And it’s fun, it’s fun to do. I’m happy with my clients, I’m better at saying no to people, if I get a client approach me that I know really isn’t my bag, like, I had an accountant approach me to rewrite the website and I just said, no. Because I knew it wouldn’t bring me any joy, it would stress me out and it just wouldn’t be worth it. And then I got something else the next day, that was perfect for me. So it’s just knowing, I think, it’s knowing when to say no to things. And when you first start out, that’s the hardest part because you end up doing things that you don’t like doing, or even that you’re not very good at because you’re scared to say no. [Yeah.] And I think that’s why as well working alone, it is really good to be part of kind of, there’s quite a lot of business networking groups out there, but find your one that you like, I’m in one that’s really good. And I know that I can kind of pull on different people for just about anything. If I’m stuck, there’s somebody else who can do it and I don’t have to try and you know, blindly do things because clients want me to anymore.

Charlotte Speak 21:54
Yeah, amazing. So one of the things that would be interesting if you’re okay talking about it, would be the support that you found after Charlotte passed away.

Clare Clifford 22:08
Yeah, absolutely. None, zero. I’m still waiting for the psychiatrists from LGI to get in touch with me after the night she died. I was told I’d get a call.

Charlotte Speak 22:20
Because I think that’s something that I hadn’t, until I met you and knew about your story. I would associate things when you are in an employed workplace, the kind of support that happens when you are employed and you’ve often got resources there at your disposal through things like occupational health, or obviously looks different depending on what company you work for. And I also don’t say that knowing that it will be perfect, I’m sure that there will be people listening who have had to explore their own solutions, even though they work for somebody, I don’t think it is perfect at all. But often signposting is a little bit better when you are working for an employer because they’ve got a vested interest in making sure that you’re okay, haven’t they?

Clare Clifford 23:16
They have. But I would say, for me, there was nothing, but I would say that, someone that I’ve got to know because they lost their child who were in the police, both mum and dad and they didn’t get support. Which is quite surprising, really, isn’t it?

Charlotte Speak 23:35
Yeah, awful, actually. So has it felt like something that’s, having to be self sufficient, and navigate that both for you and your daughter and the rest of your family.

Clare Clifford 23:51
The thing is, the problem is when in those first few weeks after you’ve lost your child, you are just in turmoil, and the help that you need, you’ve got to find it. And you need the help to come to you. I’m very lucky that I’ve got a really good kind of support network of friends. My best friend of nearly 30 years, she just arranged everything, she just took over, arranged the funeral, and did all those kinds of things. But if I hadn’t had her, I’m not sure. Eventually, and the problem as well is through the traditional means of the NHS grief counselling, they don’t have anything. Losing a loved one is awful, but losing a child is quite unique, it’s a different thing altogether and they’re not specially trained in it and they didn’t really, ‘oh, we’ll give you some CBT.’ I don’t need CBT, it’s not something that you can get me to fix by tapping something. I had to do CPR on my own child and she died. You know, that’s not something that I’m going to get over like this. But we eventually got in touch with Martin House, children’s hospice, and they were able to offer some grief support. They weren’t technically supposed to work with us because our child hadn’t died of an illness, it was a sudden death. But they did and that was quite good, because they actually were trained specifically to work with parents and families whose children had died. So that was the only thing really that we found helpful. The only other thing really was that I’ve been offered medication and because I was pregnant with Jack so quickly, any kind medication or sedation was kind, sedation had to be taken away and the medication had to be realigned because I was pregnant. And then I think everyone just thought I was fixed. [Yeah.] And you’re not, because I’ll still always have three children. That’s one of the things that I’ve struggled with is where does that love go because I don’t love her any less than I love the other two, I’ve just not got anywhere to put that love and that’s quite difficult. [Yeah.] But the support is horrendous. Yeah. And the support we had when we had Jack as well, it was just all criticising us really, because obviously, we were quite nervous anyway. So yeah, it was handled terribly by all involved, to be honest. We were treated like criminals.

Charlotte Speak 26:55
I suppose that is where your business has come in a lot, then hasn’t it? That’s been part of your, I don’t want to use, part of navigating the grief. [Yeah.] Grief doesn’t go away, does it? It’s always there. It just is in different stages.

Clare Clifford 27:12
It’s certainly been healing in a way. You never heal, but you learn to deal with it. And I think being able to do this, having somewhere to put my energy for her, has helped. It’s not a replacement by any means but knowing that I’m doing something good, that’s helped support the family and then I’m not just letting it absorb me. That does help. Yeah, but I think without what happened to her, I don’t think I would have ever done this. I think I would have just been quite happy to just hide behind my clients rather than put myself out there. So, if Charlotte did anything, she made me fearless. There’s not much that scares me anymore.

Charlotte Speak 28:10
Yeah. Like your word before about that kind of bitter sweetness. It’s incredible to hear, horrendously sad, and just heartbreaking for you, but what an incredible outcome. If that’s the right word to use, I don’t know. But just the fact that you’ve been able to create a legacy for her, for a baby who had, you know, has changed you all and it’s her, isn’t it? And that’s so definitely where that love is flowing into.

Clare Clifford 28:52
Quite often when parents lose a child, they choose to support a charity or set up a charity or trust. And that’s something that I toyed with, but selfishly, we needed something for us. And it’s okay sometimes to try and look after yourself. And that’s what I needed to do: look after my family unit and find a way to keep us going. Because the last thing you need is to be kind of in loads of debt and have money worries on top of the grief. So, yeah,

Charlotte Speak 29:23
And something that is, you know, making, obviously a difference to your family, but to the lives of other businesses, and other people, and that is, you know, a different dynamic to be working through, isn’t it? And I would imagine, I know a couple of people who either work for charities or have set their own up, through different scenarios and setups, it really takes its toll in a very different way and the reminders are there. I mean, you’re always going to be thinking about her anyway. We lost a friend last year and she was, you know, in her 30s. But somebody said to me, because I was like, how do I, what do I send a message to Matt, to her husband? But what do I say? I don’t want to suddenly drop a message in one day to him, and then maybe, you know, remind him and they were like, he’s always going to be thinking about her, there is no reminder. And I think that it just reminds you to not centre yourself in somebody else’s grief, like I was feeling really bad that if I suddenly set him off, well, that doesn’t matter. What’s more important is that he knows that he’s got friends and support there.

Clare Clifford 30:39
I think when you’ve lost somebody really close, your biggest fear is it happening again, but your second biggest fear is that people don’t remember them. So when people show me they remember, yeah, it means a lot. It might make me cry, or I might not have the words to respond to that message then and there, particularly when it’s around anniversaries and things, but the fact that people remember, really does help.

Charlotte Speak 31:05
Yeah, and use Charlotte’s name as well. That’s something that I’ve learned through clients who have experienced child loss, that they are still here, obviously not physically here, but you are still their parent, and they are still your child. And it’s important to bring all of that in and you know, there’s no truer testament than what you’ve done with Sunshine Digital, is it? So she’s very much there for you. [She is, always.] What are your plans for the rest of this year? You’ve obviously got some big milestones with the kids going back to school and things but for you, and where you would like to see Sunshine Digital go between now and Christmas, what are your goals? I can’t believe I’ve just used the ‘C’ word.

Clare Clifford 31:57
I used it in my newsletter last week. Yeah, and I called it the C word as well. So this year, it sounds really boring. I want to say I’m going to have a 10k month, but…

Charlotte Speak 32:13
You can say that if you want, I don’t judge people.

Clare Clifford 32:14
No, even if I did, I wouldn’t be shouting it from the rooftops, I just think it’s a bit tacky. Do you know what, the rest of this year is just to survive. I’m quite fortunate that for retainer clients at the moment, I’m full. So I’d like to do a little bit more coaching, I’d like to be on a couple more podcasts. What I would really like to do towards the end of the year, beginning of next is to get somebody else on board to work with me, to be making enough to do that. But beyond that, I just want to go to Pilates a little bit more. Some nice lunches with friends and yeah, just get through a whole term of school with no burst bubbles. My expectations are quite low these days.

Charlotte Speak 33:03
We love a low expectation.

Clare Clifford 33:05
I was talking to one of my friends and I was like, do you remember when we used to get really upset and stressed when we got the call saying they’ve got chickenpox and had to like stay at home for five days. Yeah, that’s nothing is it now. Bring those days back when a case of the chicken pox, which they could only get once, was a disaster. So yeah, that’s all for me really is just to get through it, and maybe look to recruit next year. I just want some easy time where I’m not having to juggle quite as much as I have been doing.

Charlotte Speak 33:39
Yeah, that sounds incredible. And I think probably resonates with a lot of people that will be listening, there’s a lot to be said for neutrality isn’t.

Clare Clifford 33:49
There’s times to grow and there’s times for just staying level and at the moment it’s just about staying level. You can’t always be growing.

Charlotte Speak 33:59
And I think for me as, I’m starting to explore what growth does mean for me and actually sometimes being that level and I haven’t realised that I talk with my hands a lot, which is not great when you’re recording a podcast, but I am kind of, my hands are going out to the side and staying in a relatively straight line. But being able to find a way where you do maintain a bit of consistency can be growth in itself, possibly not the dictionary definition of it. I think sometimes that feeling of getting to know yourself in that state and not constantly looking for more and that side of things is just as much growth as anything but just perhaps not in the same way that’s all.

Clare Clifford 34:47
Yeah, I have been doing this in the past because sometimes I do feel quite bitter and cross and angry about what happened. And I have been exploring, my friend keeps saying that she’s expecting me to turn up a tie dyed kaftan. But I’ve been looking to and exploring gratitude quite a lot. And actually being grateful for everything you’ve got, and not always striving for the next thing, sometimes in itself is a form of looking after yourself. [Yeah, absolutely] Be happy with your lot. That’s actually better for you. And like you say, I found that in this year, my mission was to just be okay, and keep my head above water. And I’ve experienced quite a lot of growth through that. So I think sometimes, it just happens naturally and organically. So don’t put all your energy into getting growth because you’ll miss out on what you’ve actually got.

Charlotte Speak 35:45
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And I think it is a perfect place for us to end this. Because you’ve summed up beautifully there, something that’s really close to my heart. So thank you so much for joining me today, Clare and for sharing your story and Charlotte’s story. You’ve been very generous in sharing your words and your experience. So thank you so much.

Clare Clifford 36:08
Thank you very much.

Charlotte Speak 36:09
Thank you. And for anybody listening, we are going to put all of Clare’s links into the show notes. But if you just want to give us your Instagram handle, that would be really good Clare.

Clare Clifford 36:19
It’s @claresunshinedigital on Instagram. And also obviously my business is all to do digital marketing but if there’s any kind of parents out there who are experiencing loss and feel loss, please drop me a message and there is light. Even when it doesn’t seem like it, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Charlotte Speak 36:39
That is incredibly kind of you to offer. Thank you, Clare. And if anybody does want to get in touch and go and follow Clare on Instagram, I would thoroughly recommend it. The messages that you share are fab and it is just a wonderful mix of everything and I absolutely love what you’re doing. So thank you.

Thanks very much for tuning in to Power of the Parent, the podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please rate, review and subscribe. And if you could tell all your friends about the podcast that would be wonderful. If you’d like to get in touch you can find me on Instagram. Just search Power of the Parent. See you next time.

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