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Power of the Parent 4: S4 Ep4: Litsa Smith – Unscramble Me

Power of the Parent 4: S4 Ep4: Litsa Smith – Unscramble Me

In this weeks’ episode I’m talking to Litsa Smith, the founder of Unscramble Me – the home of mentoring programmes and workshops to help people get organised, feel in control and combat stress. Litsa is all about supporting people with their wellbeing and operational effectiveness and after 20 years of leading high achieving teams she’s putting her experiences into supporting individuals blending work and home life.I love Litsa’s reframing and practical tips that allow for guidance but don’t leave you feeling like a cookie cutter approach has been applied. Her recent newsletter came with the title ‘how not to feel crap about all the stuff that stays on our to do list forever’ – which is my kinda reading.

We covered how Litsa works with organisations, how she really feels about the definition of ‘productivity’ (spoiler: she doesn’t like it) and a timely reminder about protecting our wellbeing in the remaining part of the year. We talked about every single person in an organisation having something to bring and add value, the power of reflection on what gets our focus and attention and a reminder of applying the 80:20 rule…we covered a lot in just over half an hour! Litsa mentions a blog post when we’re chatting, you can read it here.

You can find out more about Litsa on LinkedIn (she has a cracking newsletter) or through Instagram.


Episode Transcript

Charlotte Speak 00:07
Hello and welcome to Power of the Parent, the podcast. I’m your host, Charlotte Speak. I’m a level seven CMI accredited coach, a strength scope master practitioner, mental health first aider and talent consultant and I’m also the face behind Power of the Parent. In this podcast, I’ll be speaking to parents in the workplace, some of them are in traditionally employed roles, others are running their own businesses and we’re having conversations about life in general, insights about being a parent and having a career and exploring the strengths that parenting has awoken for people. We will talk about things like the value that they bring into the workplace, as well as my guests very generously sharing their personal stories and anecdotes about everything life can throw at us.

Charlotte Speak 00:51
Hello and welcome to this episode of Power of the Parent, the podcast, where today I am joined by Litsa Smith, the founder of Unscramble Me, the home of mentoring programs and workshops to help people get organised, feel in control and get combating stress. Litsa is all about supporting people with their wellbeing and operational effectiveness. And after 20 years of leading high achieving teams, she’s put in her experiences into supporting individuals, blending work and home life. I really love Litsa’s reframing and practical tips that allow for guidance, but don’t leave you feeling like a cookie cutter approach has been applied. Her recent newsletter came out with the title How Not To Feel Crap About All The Stuff That Stays On Our To Do List Forever, which is my kind of reading. So I’m really thrilled that she’s joining me today because I think there’s going to be a whole heap of myth busting that we probably need to do and we’re going to be able to share some tips from a workplace perspective so thank you for joining me.

Litsa Smith 01:58
Oh, what a lovely introduction Charlotte. Thank you. You make me smile with that, that’s made me giggle a little bit, but that’s lovely. Thanks.

Charlotte Speak 02:08
Well, did I capture everything? [Captured everything, yeah] You are a parent as well. You do come at this from a very knowing stance of being a parent, don’t you? So I think that’s important to point out.

Litsa Smith 02:17
Yeah, I have two boys aged 13 and 9, so I have at the moment, I’m in that perfect storm of little kid and teenage years, which is lovely. I mean, it is lovely, but it’s also, oh, it’s lovely.

Charlotte Speak 02:30
Kind of said with a like a gritted smile. [Absolutely.] Our path has only crossed fairly recently, although we have already collaborated on a project for a corporate client, but I would really love to hear more about how you kind of support people from a workplace perspective because I think the… I suppose you tune into some things don’t you, but I’m feeling a lot from clients in particular when they are in that corporate world still, from a parent perspective, this kind of need to do more, they’re sometimes slipping into ‘prover mode,’ what that can sometimes mean for how you’re working. And then likewise, from a line manager perspective, like the sometimes the things that you’re having to ask your teams to be doing and if we’re kind of constantly bashing people over their head with productivity, that can feel really awful. So that was a really long winded way of basically saying, can you tell us a bit more about Unscramble Me and the work that you do please?

Litsa Smith 03:31
Yeah, I think there’s a million things actually to talk about there, but I’ll just start by outlining.

Charlotte Speak 03:37
When I’m coaching, I’m much better at asking questions. I’m just very excited to talk to you.

Litsa Smith 03:40
It was a perfect question, good phrasing. So I’ve got three main ways in which I support organisations, so it’s probably easiest to just explain what they are. So the first, and I guess easiest one, is I run master classes and they are either virtual or in person. And I’ve got quite a few core ones and I always make them interactive to make sure they’re not boring. But some of the core ones are Unscramble Your Week, which is all about helping people stop being a busy fool. A bit like you just mentioned about that ‘prover mode,’ where you’re answering emails constantly because you feel like that shows that you’re really busy and important, and helping people to get out of that really and to remind them that how not to be a busy fool, how to prioritise, how to beat that procrastination and that distraction. And not just all of that because the big thing of mine, which I think you’ve kind of alluded to already is, we’re not robots and I hate the word productivity, even though I use it in the way I describe. And the reason I hate it, yeah, is that okay, I’m sorry to use it, but I think the reason I hate it is because it’s this idea of people being like machines, right, and just churning stuff out. And that’s not what it means to me. To me, it means working on the stuff that’s right for you to be working on and things that will help you get better, be better, be your best self. That workshop, for example, will talk to people about how to keep their battery full, so how to make sure that they can do all these things at work by keeping themselves feeling well. So there’s workshops like that, I’ve got, at the moment, I’ve run a couple of times a workshop recently on stressbusting tips for Q4. A lot of the businesses I work with have their peak in Q4, and we can find teams feeling really overwhelmed and out of control so there’s some tips. Really practical stuff. I’m always about the practical as to what we can do around boundaries, around just taking a step back, all those things to help just feel better and be more effective when you’re in that really busy period. So that’s a flavor of some of my master classes. I also then, on a higher touch level, run group programs, and then I run a one to one program. So the group program that I run is aimed at professionals early in their career, and it’s eight hours overall, and it’s in sections. So first, we recover clarity and flow, then the second is planning and prioritisation. Then we talk about attention and focus, and then finally, energy and balance. So that’s all those things where early in your career, if nobody tells you, you just don’t know, do you? And you can get drawn into bad habits, which are bad for you and they’re bad for the organisation as well.

Charlotte Speak 06:40
100% I felt a lot of what you just said there.

Litsa Smith 06:43
Did you, people do say that when you kind of just take a step back and you, because you’re in it all the time, you sometimes don’t realise it, I think. And then the last way I work with organizations is I work with senior leaders on a one to one level, so we take them through a 12 week program, they get one to ones every couple of weeks. And then that’s really individualised with the cohort of 12 individual senior leaders. And it’s really about understanding what makes them go, ah, and feel that overwhelm, unpicking it and figuring out what we can do differently, small changes to build up their lives so they feel more in control and then they, in turn, can help their teams with all those things. So you thought you were long winded, I have just spent a good amount of time explaining all those different things.

Charlotte Speak 07:33
Ah no, that’s, I think the way that you explain it and, kind of, I suppose some of the different exposure that you might need as well is going to differ by level and, not, well I suppose career experience and when you’re at that level where you’re also leading others this whole conversation takes on a different meaning doesn’t it, because it isn’t just about me, myself and I anymore, it’s also about what your role modelling, how you can have some of these conversations with your teams and that can feel a bit icky can’t it? I’ve just literally just come off delivering a workshop to a load of line managers about how do you have some of these conversations about supporting parents in the workplace, this was obviously for my niche but the ickiness can sometimes come from I don’t know what to say or what if I say something and it’s wrong and then you know I’m going to completely engage my team it can feel like a bit of a quagmire to work through can’t it.

Litsa Smith 08:32
Yeah, completely understand and I think that’s where I’m a really big advocate of, a line manager should never be feeding just top down and that’s the one way that it goes and that can combat some of, some of what you’re saying, I believe. So when you’re coming up with OK, what do you all want to be working on, for example, this next quarter. Absolutely should not be that you get your team into a room and say, this is what we’re working on for the next three months. I just don’t understand or believe that’s a good way of working. It should be, here are some of the things that are going on in the business, guys. [Yeah.] What do we think? What do we want to be seeing as in three months time? What do we want to have achieved as a team in three months time? And when you have got clarity, that’s one of the things I talk about quite a bit, when you’ve got clarity on that, I feel like the rest of the conversations come a lot easier because then it’s for your team members to help with the how and to come up with the how and those conversations then feel quite a bit easier.

Charlotte Speak 09:30
You and I have similar views on managing energy and strengths, that that’s when you can then have those conversations about, where do you add value? Where are you going to bring the most? Where are you going to be at your most engaged, isn’t it? Because, you might not be designing jobs around people, but what you are doing is having a better, more productive conversation about, and I get that it can’t happen in every team and there are some roles and some organisations that this just doesn’t work for, but for every one of those, there must be like a hundred where it does. That you can, the impact then on people’s engagement, on their wellbeing and then ultimately your commercial performance, it rolls up, doesn’t it? It’s never just an isolated conversation. It has a huge impact on, well, everything. Is that dramatic to say that?

Litsa Smith 10:20
I completely agree. And everyone, again, something I’ve always done with my teams in the past and when I work with organisations, it sounds a bit cheesy saying it now, but every single person has something to bring that every other person in that team can’t bring, and that’s where you get that true super strength, isn’t it? And where you can really hone down on that and you can support each other on the things that other people aren’t so strong on, particularly. That’s when you get everyone working absolutely optimally as a team. Not to say we don’t ever have to do those other things, but it’s just about focusing in the right place, isn’t it?

Charlotte Speak 10:57
I honestly totally agree and a question that I have had on more than one occasion, sometimes in workshops, sometimes I’ll get it on social media or LinkedIn, sometimes people choose to say it publicly, sometimes it’s a bit more under the radar. I’m building this, aren’t I? It’s not going to be like a really… [What’s it going to be?] The question that I get, when you’re talking there, this is exactly the place that it takes me to. And I think it’s something really important, a message that we need to take forth to employers is that everybody adds… Everybody brings something, everybody adds value. The question that I get is, why should parents get special treatment? Because they think that my messaging is about… I wish we were doing this on video because I want people to have just seen Litsa’s Face. There was a head shake and a ‘ah’ face. That’s what people think this is… I mean, gosh, maybe I’ve not articulated myself very well, but that’s not what we’re saying. I suppose you can read it like that, absolutely. But ultimately, what I’m trying to say is exactly what you’ve articulated there. Every single person has something to bring. However, for parents, you’re coming at this from a place of deficit because there are societal issues that make you feel less than, because you have family or caring responsibilities. And when you put all of that in a melting pot of the classic definition of productivity, the fact that society makes you think you’re less than when you’ve become a parent, the fact that you question sometimes your identity, the value that you add, the worth that you bring, you put all of that together and then you’ve got people creeping towards things like burnout because they are full of negative emotions, they’re lacking on energy and they’re just keeping… They keep just trying to go and go and go and they’re to do lists mount up and it’s hard to see the wood for the trees, isn’t it?

Litsa Smith 12:58
Yeah, I mean, I don’t even know where to start with all of that because there’s so much in that. But yeah, let’s start with the already coming from a place of deficit that you mentioned. You know, I remember leaving at five o’clock when I had to go collect a child from nursery and there were banter of, oh, half day, you know, that kind of thing from John in accounts who’d spent an hour messing around with a ball in the boardroom, you know, an hour before, but that kind of energy can get to people if you’ve not in a culture or environment that agrees and supports that that’s not OK. And, you know, back to the kind of everybody brings something different, hours worked for a start, again, this is another point, does not equal effectiveness or how much somebody brings. That is undisputed. I don’t know how many ways or how many different kind of studies or ways we have to say that to know that that’s true. In terms of emotional energy when you’re a parent, you’ve got that as well, but what we’re not saying, and I know what you’re not saying, is give parents special treatment, it’s give everybody the support and tools to be able to work and be their best self, whatever their situation is, I think. [Yes.] And I completely support that and believe that in everything I do as well.

Charlotte Speak 14:24
Good, we’re aligned, great place to be. So I know you’ve kind of shaped for us how you work with organisations, but this feeling of overwhelm that seems to be its very own pandemic. When you look at that from a workplace perspective, what kinds of things are you coming across in your line of work and what are you having to support leaders or their teams with right now when it comes to that particular topic? I mean I know it’s massive but…

Litsa Smith 14:55
It is massive. I guess I’ll take a couple of key ones. When people feel overwhelmed, I find that my clients are becoming paralyzed and don’t do anything, because they’re totally overwhelmed with everything. They don’t know where to start and that’s kind of the result of that overwhelm. And then if it carries on and gets really bad, that’s when you end up with the stress and the burnout, they’re not getting the support to help them to tackle that overwhelm. And they end up, back to where we started this conversation, doing that busy work, that answering of emails, the wanting to be seen because they can’t really get to the, what is it that they should be doing? Because it’s everything and they’re overwhelmed by it. So that’s how it’s showing up for my clients and in the workplace. People then end up not looking after themselves, which is back to that battery being empty and then that declines, so I think that’s how it shows up. I think for parents, if you just wanna touch on parents specifically, parents have a whole other world that they are also managing and that contributes to that overwhelm, so one of the big things I talk about is the whole person. So when parents are in work, overwhelmed by stakeholder A, B, C, D & E, who all want a piece of them, they’ve then got school, kids clubs, kids being ill, kids lessons, whatever it might be, all that other stuff, also buzzing around for them so that compounds that overwhelm. So yeah, so in terms of what we can do to support that, I think helping people to be clear on what the one, two, three priorities for them are, helps. If you’re a line manager, don’t worry about people’s productivity as it were being that constant churning of stuff, it’s helping them to identify what they should focus on and telling them it’s okay that they’re not getting through the 50 things on their to do list, because they’re probably not all important anyway.

Charlotte Speak 16:51
You’ve taken me back to a dark place. Because I remember, [sorry] no, I think it’s important to, we’ve got to face into this one. I remember being actually probably quite early on in my career, I was told I was struggling to prioritise. My experience actually wasn’t, and I believed that I did, I took that on, on reflection and luckily, when I had a new line manager, I wasn’t struggling to prioritise, I was struggling to manage my line manager, who actually was the one that was all over the place. And probably because their line manager was all over the place and the overall functional strategy was all over the place. And I remember just feeling, I wasn’t long out of uni and thinking, what on earth have I done? And I don’t know, what am I meant to do? Because I felt like I was making lots of different mistakes and that I was, again, on reflection, looking back I wasn’t working in the way that was conducive to my strengths. I was 100% playing into all of my weaknesses all the time, which is, you know, going to drag somebody down, isn’t it? But, I suppose where I’m going with this is, if you’re the person, whether you’re a parent or whether you’re, or whether you’re not, if you’re the one feeling overwhelmed, and you’re attributing some of that overwhelm to how other people are behaving. Do you have any kind of words of wisdom, or any thoughts on how you might navigate that? Because that’s probably what I wish I’d have known 15 years ago.

Litsa Smith 18:24
Yeah, it’s really, really tricky when it’s a whole organisational culture thing to combat that from us, from a one person perspective. But I suppose, yeah, if you are in that situation, I would say make sure you have your one to ones with your manager. Do not let your manager duck out of one to ones because they’re busy, if they cancel them, try and rearrange them. And if you’re on the other side, if you’re a manager, please don’t cancel your one to ones because you think they are the one meeting that you can just cancel. They are not. They are the one meeting every week, at least once a week that you should 100% be keeping. And in that meeting, I guess if you can try and speak to your manager, show them, show them what you’re working on, get your laptop, show them the emails you’re dealing with, you know, ask them to help you identify the things, two things, you know, small number of things that they would love to see completed by the following week and try and understand why, why are those things important? And write it down so you’re both really clear after that meeting that that’s what you’ve spoken about and then revisit that the following week. If you haven’t managed to get to those things, chat to your line manager about what you were doing instead. What other pressures were put on you? Just try and be as clear as possible with them. The reason I’m hesitating with this and I’m a bit conflicted is because I know it’s really, really difficult, which is why I’m really keen on actually this stuff has to come from the top. Because one person with all that above them and around them can’t very effectively tackle it.

Charlotte Speak 20:07
So two things that you said there resonated with me. When you talked the specifics of asking for, you know, what are the one or two things that you need me to focus on, would be a game changer for some people because, and I find it in my line of work with coaching, you can ask, and you are meant to, ask, you know, really powerful open questions. But you know, if you ask somebody, how are you, compared to if you ask them, how are you doing today? You can get two very different answers. And I think if you can be more specific with people, so yes, there’s absolute value in open questions. But if you’re struggling with a particular pain point, then getting specific on, actually, I need an answer to this, not what’s the strategy for the next six months, I actually just need to know what I’m meant to be focusing on right now. I think is a really powerful takeaway that I’m going to take away from this, because I’m going to ask myself that question, I don’t have a boss to ask it. But the second thing that you said there was, if you don’t get to those things, articulating to them what you were doing instead, what took your focus and attention instead, because I think that’s a really powerful reflection that we don’t often give ourselves and it can be a real gift, I think, I don’t know how you would feel about that. For two reasons; one, maybe they are the things that genuinely needed your focus and attention and therefore, you can’t give yourself a hard time, because they really were your burning platforms, not the other things. But also, it could be an indication of that kind of procrastination of, actually, I’m going to go and do those shiny magpie things over there, because I really don’t want to be doing this bit, and I just want to do the shiny stuff. So I suppose what I’ve taken away from that bit is really connecting with what is pulling your focus and attention. You don’t even need to bring productivity into it. [Yeah.] It could be the thing that could be quite transformational.

Litsa Smith 22:07
Yeah, absolutely, and just trying something like keeping track of what you’re doing on a day to day basis can be really helpful for people. There’s a really good free time tracking website which you can use think it’s called Toggle and you can just put a few little categories in it and just try it on yourself for three or four days or a week and it’s it can be eye opening for yourself. It’s not to trip anyone up, or to, it’s to help you to help you to see, because sometimes you get to the end of the day, don’t you and you think, what have I actually done today? So that kind of awareness that you just spoke about is really important and I think the other thing I talk loads with my clients about is when you get to the end of a week, sit down and think about what you have done that week and think about what you want to do the following week and really just take that time to take that step back away from the day to day and the burning platforms like you said and it only takes you 15 minutes. And it can be quite game changing to ask yourself those questions on a weekly basis as well.

Charlotte Speak 23:11
I am terrible at having multiple lists and I know from your activities and your way of working that that is what we should be running in the opposite direction of. And I’m doing my best, I’ve got a mini Litsa on my shoulder quite a lot at the moment. I think you know that I’m being pulled in a few different directions, but something like that, it can feel like common sense but isn’t common practice. I definitely see that with people that I work with on a number of topics, but this one in particular for me, I found is already starting to, and I wouldn’t say I do it consistently, sorry, but if I do it more days than not or more weeks than not, I can then feel the difference. Is it something that you, is it a bit of you? Do you make sure that you’re doing that? Because that master list is, you know, it’s excellent.

Litsa Smith 24:06
Well, good firstly but two things from that. One, 80:20 rule. I am all about the 80:20 rule. I think there’s a blog on my website from when I first started quite a long time ago and it’s got a little picture of me with a halo on it saying, you know, is there a perfect organised person? And the answer, let me spoil the surprise for you, is no. The whole point of all of this, all of it is if you can get it right 80% of the time, the other 20% of the time is fine. It doesn’t matter if things go wrong about 20% of the time because I mean Pareto principle, 80:20 rule it just is everywhere in every part of our lives right? So amazing that you’re trying to do that and it’s working for you and it doesn’t matter a fig that you’re not doing it 100% of the time because if you see the benefits you’ll start to do it a bit more but also you’ll never do it, we’re human it’s back to that we’re not robots thing, and then your point about having lots of lists previously, I’ve just finished working with one to one client who said she had lists everywhere and when we looked at her iPhone notes she had 32 lists on the go. 32 to do lists that she’d kind of started, finished and she spent a really good amount of time consolidating into one list and in terms of the feeling, if nothing else the feeling that gives her now, to just have one place to put stuff. I don’t think you can underestimate that, so yeah, I’m all into one list for your home life and one list for your work life. Up to you whether you have one for the two, I like to have two separate ones and you can always have, you can use different tools for the two different lists depending on what works for your life. I’m getting into little tips here aren’t I, but yeah I think it’s really important to have that and not only to have that, but to have a little reminder to yourself as to when to actually look at those lists because, no good writing stuff down all the time if you never do any of the stuff on it is it?

Charlotte Speak 26:05
Well, that leads me nicely onto a question actually, because you have like a strategy and a way of working, don’t you? To make sure that something that you, like the one thing that you don’t keep getting to, but you really do need to keep getting to because that could unlock so much about making sure that that that does feature for you. So something that’s important might not necessarily feel immediately urgent, but that kind of categorisation, you talk about the value of that as well, don’t you? That it’s that that does need to feature.

Litsa Smith 26:38
Yeah, completely. It’s really difficult for us. And we’re working in busy corporate businesses, especially, or in anybody really, when you’ve got those day to day things happening, it’s often difficult to get to those game changing projects or pieces of work that aren’t urgent, because they don’t have an externally imposed deadline on them. But you know that it’s really important to do, other things come in first. So the way I work with clients to help them get on with those things is firstly, identify what those things are, you know, make sure you’ve got them in again, in one place, and you know what those game changing things are. Secondly, use a bit of a coaching principle on that, the five Ys, which I’m sure you’ve used with your your clients loads, Charlotte. You know, why, why is it important to do that? And why and why and why, which can give you that understanding of that, the why of why you should do it, what will it mean for you when it’s done? And then break it down. Big projects are scary. They could be scary because they’re difficult, because we think they might be boring for loads and loads of reasons so we’ll end up procrastinating, as well as the other reasons of other things getting in the way. So what we do is we’ll break that project down into as many small, tiny steps as you possibly can. And then schedule each of those steps into your calendar in however it works for you. It can be different for everybody. You might say, I want to spend all day on Thursday working on this project, brilliant, if you can get away with doing that in your work. If you can’t, you say, right, well, I’m going to spend one hour a week working on this, you know, within a month, you’ll have spent four whole hours working on a really important project and schedule those little steps. So I’m getting excited now, aren’t I? I’m talking about calendars and scheduling, but if you can just pop those steps, don’t just put work on project in your calendar. Put work on step three, which is to complete the introduction to, whatever it is, the small step, and that will help you to feel less overwhelmed by it as well.

Charlotte Speak 28:44
Thank you for that. You’ve immediately made me think about how I design sessions and sometimes I give myself a really hard time, so I’ll do a design in my notebook of, you know, here’s the headline topic, here’s roughly what I’m going to talk about. And then I’ll do a slide deck, but it won’t look beautiful in the slightest, it will just be me like dumping my head into it. And then I’ll go back and do the design work on it at the very end, I save the best to last, that’s my favourite bit and it feels more efficient and I like being efficient. And that sometimes I feel like you should have been able to do that all in one go, you know this stuff. You should have been able to do the design as well as doing the typing. And it becomes almost like I’ve told myself that I’ve done like it in dribs and drabs. And actually, when you put it the way you just have, step whatever at this particular time, it isn’t dribs and drabs. That is just my process. I’m never going to go from the finished article it builds. And that’s what that’s how I like to work and it gives that reflection time. And I think that’s a lot of what I end up talking about, not in this exact same way, but ultimately talking to clients about the worry that they’re not the finished article that there’s been a process. There’s been a journey. And I think we just do sometimes forget that we’re meant to be messy humans and that messy middle vibe is totally understandable.

Litsa Smith 30:12
Yeah, completely. So firstly, what you’re doing is actually the most efficient way because you’re batching the types of tasks, right? So our brain, if you think about the task switching, you can’t switch from, you would do all this stuff in coaching, I know Charlotte, but yeah, if you’re switching from, let me think about what the content is to, oh, let me make pretty design, that will be much less efficient than doing all the content and then all the design. So you’re doing that in the most brain friendly way already, so yeah, and then in terms of the finished article person, we can’t be a finished article because our lives are always changing. And again, we’re not robots, we’re not perfect, all those things. So what’s right for us today? And the way we are and the way we work and the way we like to work and we like we like to be, is not the same as what it will be in six months time. When we have a big life change, maybe like having children, that might change again, when our children are grown up, that might change again, you might move house, it might change again. Yeah, there is no perfect is there, there’s no, there’s no finish, there’s no end, it’s just constant tweaking, trying, trying to feel good. What’s this all about, right? About being the best of ourselves and making the most of what we can within our control.

Charlotte Speak 31:31
I love that and I think it’s a really brilliant place for us to end the conversation today. Thank you so much for all of that wisdom that you’ve imparted. If people are listening and they want to come and find out more about you and your work, where is the best place for them to do that?

Litsa Smith 31:46
Oh, thanks Charlotte, I’ve absolutely loved it and I think we could have probably talked for another hour or two. So they can find me on LinkedIn, I’m Litsa Smith on LinkedIn or they can find me on Instagram which is unscramble me but it’s un.scramble_me to find me over on Instagram too.

Charlotte Speak 32:05
Amazing. Thank you so much and I hope that lots of people come and find you and your work, because I think it’s so important right now. So take care everybody and I will put all of those links in the show notes as well. Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye.

Charlotte Speak 32:21
Thanks very much for tuning in to Power of the Parent, the podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please rate, review and subscribe. And if you could tell all your friends about the podcast, that would be wonderful. If you’d like to get in touch, you can find me on Instagram, just search Power of the Parent. See you next time.

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